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now look what the skeptics like was a

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rush straight for the jam croissants

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other coffee crowd a lil Greg t crowd

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what kind of people are here today I

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don't know I've been at the veg'table so

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another bed Joe table I they're the

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people that look a bit pale like use bit

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more iron yes yes most definitely and

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where they put that this year's have

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been in the cupboard the iron is this a

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venture table yes vegetarian and

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gluten-free so the dietary requirements

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downstairs so I should everyone else

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upstairs yeah yeah the others I thought

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this is a normal table but no it's

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special special special while the

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vegetarian side of Edison because it's

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the same there's no meat in pastries

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okay what you're doing a fine job and no

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one's been poisoned by nitrates so far

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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you

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 219 for the 29th of

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December 2012 the last skeptic zone for

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2012 Richard Saunders here with you from

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the Bay Area San Francisco what a

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beautiful day it is outside well it's

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overcast but I just love these crispy

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cool winters on this week's show one of

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my favorite topics one of my favorite

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topics monsters oh yes when I was much

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younger I used to love hearing about

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Lake Monsters and UFOs and all that sort

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of stuff well today we're going to look

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at Lake Monsters specifically the

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monster in Lake Champlain which is why

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tuck right up there in the northeast

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part of the United States up in the New

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England area sort of around Vermont I

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think it is also a bit in New York State

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anyway Lake Champlain hosts a monster or

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so it said we're going to be talking to

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researcher Robert Bartholomew who has

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written a book the untold story of champ

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a social history of America's Loch Ness

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monster what a fascinating area of study

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it is Lake Monsters whether they're real

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or not it's still a really interesting

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part of skeptical world that's coming up

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at the top of the show and following

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that it's Maynard back in melbourne with

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rebecca watson who was in melbourne for

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the australian skeptics and national

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convention and typical for Maynard this

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interview ranges all over the place not

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what you would expect coming up later on

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in the show now happy birthday to Brian

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Dunning who had a birthday in the last

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couple of days and speaking of Brian

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Dunning he tells me that the Chinese

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skep tied is doing exceedingly well with

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thousands and thousands of downloads

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every day wonderful news brian wonderful

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news and for you Brian Dunning fans in

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Australia especially in the Australian

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Capital Territory are the Canberra

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skeptics in

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it's you to a free screening of here be

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dragons an introduction to critical

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thinking now that's going to be on

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sunday january the 20th from midday

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until two o'clock the location is

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Questacon at King Edward Terrace now

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people in Canberra will know where the

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Questacon is it's a very famous building

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there in Canberra for more information

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visit WWE ambra skeptics org a you and

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click the link for Canberra skeptic

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social function and free screening of

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here be dragons now before we before we

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kick off the skeptic zone i thought i'd

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give you a mystical at well not mystical

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at all insight into 2013 what are my

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predictions what are my predictions

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gained through magical insights of just

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plain guessing well let's crank up that

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published on the twenty-fifth of

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December 2012 non-psychic or just plain

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guessing predictions for 2013 by Richard

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Saunders one a former Australian Prime

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Minister will die and the family will be

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offered a state funeral to Queen

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Elizabeth the second will continue to

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rain throughout 2013 others may predict

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it but she will not abdicate three many

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self-proclaimed psychics astrologers and

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mystics will continue to dodge the

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$100,000 prize from Australia skeptics

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excuses will include I don't have to

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prove my powers to anyone the prize is

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fake the skeptics will cheat you cannot

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test psychic powers with science I don't

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want or need the money the skeptics

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won't test me if I win I reserve the

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right to sue the skeptics my guides tell

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me not to apply for the prize for those

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who believe no proof is necessary the

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skeptics only offer the prize to those

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who they know will fail the skeptics do

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not want to part with the cash if the

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prize was real someone would have won it

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30 years ago you cannot prove love for

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the assassination of a world leader will

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shock millions five major flooding along

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the east coast of Australia six

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wildfires in the USA have thousands

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evacuated 7 volcanic activity disrupts

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flights 8 a relatively young actor dies

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in tragic circumstances 9 the Australian

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dollar continues to be high 10 polio

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despite the efforts of those who would

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rather see it five will be almost wiped

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well there you go there's some well some

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predictions for the ear 2013 but before

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the year 2013 rolls around I think we'd

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better all listen to the skeptic zone

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I'm going to run out of this room run up

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the stairs jump into the car drive to

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the bart station take the butt to

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downtown San Francisco walk along the

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piers until I find some clam chowder in

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a sourdough bowl yum yum now while I'm

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doing that I'll let you enjoy the

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Robert Bartholomew is a medical

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sociologist who holds a PhD from James

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Cook University in Queensland Australia

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he has published over 60 articles in

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peer-reviewed journals including the

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British Medical Journal medical journal

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of Australia the Journal of cognitive

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psychotherapy and the international

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journal of social psychiatry he is the

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co-author of the encyclopedia of

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extraordinary social behavior and

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describes himself as a sympathetic

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skeptic who requires a body or DNA

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evidence as absolute proof he has also

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co-authored the book Bigfoot in New York

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and New England documented evidence

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stranger than fiction a former

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university instructor and researcher he

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has lived with the Malay people in

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Malaysia and taught Aborigines in

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outback Australia Roberts latest book is

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the untold story of champ a social

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and joining me on the line now from

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beautiful Auckland New Zealand is the

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author Robert Bartholomew hello robert

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or Richard well it's really great to

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chat with you I was only in Auckland a

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few days ago matter of fact what a

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beautiful city it is the other monsters

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in New Zealand well there's the

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coromandel man which is New Zealand's

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equivalent of the Bigfoot there are

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these phantom MOA sightings on the South

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Island there are phantom Puma and big

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cat reports here so New Zealand has its

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representative monsters and of course

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Lake Monsters sea serpents galore

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especially on the 17 and 1800's really

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that's interesting I know I never knew I

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know Australia has got its fair share of

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bush monsters and weird creatures and I

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think even at the lake monster somewhere

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along the way I think there must be just

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about everywhere in the world you can

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find these things but your interest at

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the moment apart from an abiding

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interest in the topic generally is the

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title of your book of course the untold

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story of champ now this is the monster

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apparently that lives in Lake Champlain

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that's right and this is one of the

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great untold stories of American history

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if people think they know the history of

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the Champlain monster they need to think

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again because there's an entire history

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here that's been kept from the public

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back in the 1880s and 1890s the lake

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champlain monster was a household name

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across the United States and in many

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parts of the world it was the equivalent

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of Loch Ness then Loch Ness didn't

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really catch on until the mid-1930s with

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some big sightings and it caught on

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because they had a ready-made audience

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as there were over 50 countries in the

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Commonwealth and those reports were

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distributed in all those countries

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because they would reprint so that's how

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chant became this household name and

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then that's how the Loch Ness monster

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super

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seated champ that's interesting because

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I visit many schools in my travels and I

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always ask the children if they've heard

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of UFOs Bigfoot and the Loch Ness

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monster and they all have absolutely all

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have you know I haven't asked them about

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champ but I bet if I did ask them I bet

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not many people especially children

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these days would have heard about it

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what why do you think it that is exactly

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the thing only because the Loch Ness

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monster is far more popular during the

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last two decades the Champlain monster

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has really come into its own there's

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been a lot of TV documentaries on

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history and discovery channel

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specifically on champ and in 2003 there

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was a sensational report that was

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broadcast on the Discovery Channel that

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this woman I call her the champ whisper

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in the book elizabeth von magan thaller

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she claimed to have heard the creature

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or this large mammal under the water and

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Lake Champlain and they they made a big

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deal about these findings and so because

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of this new information about this

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creature using bioacoustics to get

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around Lake Champlain there's been a

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really a renewed interest in champ in

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the last two decades that's interesting

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have you visited the lake I grew up at

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the base of Lake Champlain in tiny

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Whitehall New York birthplace of the

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United States Navy of course there are

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other places that claim to be the

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birthplace too so we have multiple

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realities there interesting so when was

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the last time you had looked for the

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monster that would have been last time i

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was there was in 2005 oh yep good enough

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it's it's a fascinating history and most

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people today when you mention the lake

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champlain monster um i would dare say a

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lot of those schoolchildren would be

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familiar with champ if they were maybe

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10 12 years of age if they watch history

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of discovery ok because arguably the

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world's most famous lake monster

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photograph was taken on Lake Champlain

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up until nineteen nine

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before it was the famous surgeons photo

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that was taken by a supposedly by a

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doctor at loch ness but that turned out

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to have been a hoax which was uncovered

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in 1994 and that left champ as what

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people say in a lot of books and

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magazine articles and on these TV

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documentaries as the famous manzi photo

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being arguably the best lake monster

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photo ever now that photograph is an

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interesting one I've had a look at it

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myself is famous it's it's well when you

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look at it it sort of looks like maybe

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something living on like a reptile with

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a bit of a hump or a backhand something

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that could be said to be a head poking

272
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:43,990
out of the water that's right when you

273
00:13:48,420 --> 00:13:46,210
look at this stuff when you look at UFOs

274
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:48,430
ghost Bigfoot all this stuff it looks

275
00:13:52,890 --> 00:13:50,530
interesting on the surface no pun

276
00:13:54,510 --> 00:13:52,900
intended here with champ but in the

277
00:13:57,630 --> 00:13:54,520
Manzi photo when I first looked at that

278
00:14:00,210 --> 00:13:57,640
I said wow that's really interesting but

279
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:00,220
when you dig deeper and look below the

280
00:14:05,340 --> 00:14:02,650
surface there are a lot of strange

281
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:05,350
things about that photo and I mean a lot

282
00:14:11,580 --> 00:14:07,210
of strange things i can mention a couple

283
00:14:13,310 --> 00:14:11,590
for you Sandra Mansi said that she threw

284
00:14:16,860 --> 00:14:13,320
away the negative now this was back in

285
00:14:19,110 --> 00:14:16,870
1977 when people had negatives i can

286
00:14:20,940 --> 00:14:19,120
remember unfortunately that's how you

287
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:20,950
had negatives for photographs i want to

288
00:14:25,650 --> 00:14:22,930
ask you if you remember nowt but i do

289
00:14:29,010 --> 00:14:25,660
don't worry I do yeah Richard just

290
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:29,020
imagine you take a photo of what you

291
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:31,210
believe to be a living dinosaur and you

292
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:34,090
throw away the negative and the negative

293
00:14:37,710 --> 00:14:35,770
is the only thing that can verify the

294
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:37,720
photo because you can blow it up that

295
00:14:45,450 --> 00:14:42,480
location yeah it's very odd and Manzi

296
00:14:47,340 --> 00:14:45,460
later told a well-known scientist her

297
00:14:48,900 --> 00:14:47,350
husband mr. manzetti told a well-known

298
00:14:50,910 --> 00:14:48,910
scientist in Vermont that's the

299
00:14:52,620 --> 00:14:50,920
naturalist for the state of Vermont that

300
00:14:54,420 --> 00:14:52,630
she didn't throw out the negative and

301
00:14:58,170 --> 00:14:54,430
that's what I found in uncovered in in

302
00:15:02,010 --> 00:14:58,180
my book he said they either burned or

303
00:15:04,050 --> 00:15:02,020
buried it in their backyard what I can't

304
00:15:06,030 --> 00:15:04,060
make this stuff up

305
00:15:08,370 --> 00:15:06,040
like the coke bottle in that movie the

306
00:15:12,420 --> 00:15:08,380
gods must be crazy the evil thing they

307
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:12,430
apparently did it evil so they burned or

308
00:15:17,370 --> 00:15:13,930
buried in the backyard but she claims

309
00:15:21,330 --> 00:15:17,380
they burn or bury at the backyard it's

310
00:15:24,450 --> 00:15:21,340
very odd now he passed away a few years

311
00:15:26,220 --> 00:15:24,460
after the photo was taken so there's no

312
00:15:29,940 --> 00:15:26,230
way to interview him again unless we

313
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:29,950
have a seance or something and so and

314
00:15:36,330 --> 00:15:33,090
these things go on and on for example if

315
00:15:40,370 --> 00:15:36,340
you don't have the negative the next

316
00:15:43,020 --> 00:15:40,380
best thing is to have the location yeah

317
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:43,030
the man's II said they couldn't remember

318
00:15:47,550 --> 00:15:45,010
the exact location it was somewhere

319
00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:47,560
between st. Albans Vermont and the

320
00:15:52,340 --> 00:15:50,110
Canadian border an apologist for the

321
00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:52,350
creature say well you know that's over

322
00:15:58,410 --> 00:15:56,890
500 miles of shoreline that's true but

323
00:16:00,150 --> 00:15:58,420
there's only 20 miles of shoreline

324
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:00,160
between said Albans in the Canadian

325
00:16:07,620 --> 00:16:03,370
border it's not like it's a needle in a

326
00:16:10,020 --> 00:16:07,630
haystack scenario and what most people

327
00:16:13,260 --> 00:16:10,030
don't realize and was never reported by

328
00:16:15,450 --> 00:16:13,270
other lake monster researchers was not

329
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:15,460
only that they claim to have burned or

330
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:17,530
very the negative in the backyard but

331
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:20,050
was never reported as well was that in

332
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:24,130
July of 1980 the mansi's came up from

333
00:16:29,490 --> 00:16:26,770
Connecticut on a 10-day trip on Lake

334
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:29,500
Champlain in a key reason they came up

335
00:16:36,890 --> 00:16:32,650
was to look for the location of where

336
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:36,900
they snapped that photo supposedly right

337
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:40,210
remarkably when they arrived this has

338
00:16:43,710 --> 00:16:42,370
never been reported before they never

339
00:16:46,620 --> 00:16:43,720
looked for the location they were there

340
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:46,630
for 10 days and they never look for the

341
00:16:52,020 --> 00:16:49,810
location that's uh that's interesting

342
00:16:53,970 --> 00:16:52,030
and one would wonder why exactly they

343
00:16:56,100 --> 00:16:53,980
wouldn't do that and looking at the

344
00:16:57,540 --> 00:16:56,110
photograph right now and listen as you

345
00:17:01,800 --> 00:16:57,550
can easily look at this photograph all

346
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:01,810
you have to do is google manse emans I

347
00:17:06,930 --> 00:17:04,570
photograph champ you'll find it you

348
00:17:09,030 --> 00:17:06,940
could probably find that location

349
00:17:10,770 --> 00:17:09,040
judging by the trees and the shoreline I

350
00:17:14,310 --> 00:17:10,780
think you'd have a good stab at it

351
00:17:15,900 --> 00:17:14,320
anyway you're only talking 20 miles of

352
00:17:17,250 --> 00:17:15,910
shoreline people have been through there

353
00:17:19,170 --> 00:17:17,260
on boats

354
00:17:20,699 --> 00:17:19,180
and in walking that and they still

355
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:20,709
haven't found it but what's interesting

356
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:24,490
is when they left I mean she was there

357
00:17:28,500 --> 00:17:26,530
and the object was in view for five

358
00:17:31,710 --> 00:17:28,510
minutes and she snapped just one photo

359
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:31,720
so Richard if space aliens landed where

360
00:17:36,750 --> 00:17:33,730
you are now Milan and you grabbed your

361
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:36,760
camera and they stayed there for several

362
00:17:43,170 --> 00:17:39,490
minutes I'm guessing that you would snap

363
00:17:44,910 --> 00:17:43,180
more than one photograph and then they

364
00:17:47,910 --> 00:17:44,920
said right after this when they left

365
00:17:49,290 --> 00:17:47,920
they went to get food that's not

366
00:17:52,350 --> 00:17:49,300
necessarily I would have done but they

367
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:52,360
went to get food made him hungry okay so

368
00:17:57,690 --> 00:17:54,250
couldn't you at least identify a

369
00:18:01,860 --> 00:17:57,700
landmark like a mountain a distinct

370
00:18:04,050 --> 00:18:01,870
house a sign or where they ate but they

371
00:18:07,020 --> 00:18:04,060
have not been able to find any of that

372
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:07,030
and I know the lake pretty well yeah and

373
00:18:12,180 --> 00:18:09,610
that doesn't like any part of the lake

374
00:18:14,430 --> 00:18:12,190
up there at all that's interesting

375
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:14,440
because of to the casual observer like

376
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:16,570
me looking at that photograph I would

377
00:18:19,950 --> 00:18:18,400
have no way of knowing that the lake

378
00:18:23,010 --> 00:18:19,960
doesn't quite look like that I just

379
00:18:24,990 --> 00:18:23,020
assumed that was the lake it actually

380
00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:25,000
looks like the Narrows to me which is

381
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:28,510
down much closer to the bottom of the

382
00:18:34,260 --> 00:18:30,730
lake you know what's also interesting in

383
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:34,270
the early 1980s manzi and and I'm doing

384
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:35,890
this research as an investigative

385
00:18:39,090 --> 00:18:37,690
reporter here looking at everything

386
00:18:41,450 --> 00:18:39,100
that's been written in interviewing

387
00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:41,460
people in looking at these documents and

388
00:18:47,670 --> 00:18:43,840
manzi told several reporters in the

389
00:18:49,980 --> 00:18:47,680
early 1980s mrs. mrs. manzi in separate

390
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:49,990
interviews that after the photo came

391
00:18:54,510 --> 00:18:51,850
back from developing she pinned it to

392
00:18:57,210 --> 00:18:54,520
her kitchen bulletin board and it stayed

393
00:19:01,520 --> 00:18:57,220
there for years until she came out with

394
00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:01,530
it well in 1992 she gave an interview

395
00:19:05,850 --> 00:19:03,910
face-to-face with a reporter for the

396
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:05,860
Glens Falls New York Post our John

397
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:09,850
learner and she told him that when the

398
00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:12,250
image came back from the photo man she

399
00:19:17,660 --> 00:19:15,910
hid the photo and an album and it stayed

400
00:19:20,370 --> 00:19:17,670
there for years they never took it out

401
00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:20,380
it's to have to ask yourself is this

402
00:19:26,180 --> 00:19:23,440
faulty memory and people do have faulty

403
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:26,190
memory and that happens yeah and this is

404
00:19:30,990 --> 00:19:28,570
what you might expect to happen if

405
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:31,000
somebody fabricated a story

406
00:19:37,770 --> 00:19:33,850
it it's just very odd in the oddities

407
00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:37,780
just keep flowing when you look at that

408
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:40,720
photo can I say it's a hoax I can't say

409
00:19:46,740 --> 00:19:43,810
it's a hoax but what I can say is there

410
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:46,750
were some very interesting information

411
00:19:52,670 --> 00:19:49,530
that didn't put the photo and good light

412
00:19:54,740 --> 00:19:52,680
that has not been reported by

413
00:19:56,820 --> 00:19:54,750
cryptozoologist before and these

414
00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:56,830
cryptozoologist such as Jose osinski

415
00:20:01,080 --> 00:19:58,090
wrote the book chant beyond the legend

416
00:20:05,310 --> 00:20:01,090
he never put that in his book and he

417
00:20:06,930 --> 00:20:05,320
concluded that champ was likely based on

418
00:20:09,780 --> 00:20:06,940
that photo you know that was a genuine

419
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:09,790
photo that's anything that's interesting

420
00:20:15,810 --> 00:20:12,240
and it sort of brings up a broader issue

421
00:20:17,610 --> 00:20:15,820
revolving around the general area of the

422
00:20:20,970 --> 00:20:17,620
unknown or the parallel or we might say

423
00:20:22,830 --> 00:20:20,980
with an interesting sort of tangent here

424
00:20:24,530 --> 00:20:22,840
when we're talking about monsters and so

425
00:20:27,270 --> 00:20:24,540
forth what is it about people like

426
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:27,280
cryptozoologists is it their mindset to

427
00:20:31,650 --> 00:20:29,530
go out and prove these things are real

428
00:20:33,540 --> 00:20:31,660
as opposed to what you and I might do

429
00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:33,550
just to go out to see well what is the

430
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:37,510
real story what it real or not I I want

431
00:20:40,710 --> 00:20:39,250
to make it clear I'm not a debunker and

432
00:20:43,650 --> 00:20:40,720
I found some really interesting

433
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:43,660
sightings from the 1870s and 1880s which

434
00:20:48,350 --> 00:20:46,330
I've reported in great detail from very

435
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:48,360
credible witnesses and it's possible

436
00:20:54,090 --> 00:20:51,730
champ may be out there in the lake if I

437
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:54,100
were a betting person to paraphrase

438
00:20:59,910 --> 00:20:56,530
arthur c clarke i might put ten dollars

439
00:21:01,470 --> 00:20:59,920
on the existence of champ put forty

440
00:21:02,790 --> 00:21:01,480
dollars that champ doesn't exist and

441
00:21:07,050 --> 00:21:02,800
keep the rest and put it in my pocket

442
00:21:10,050 --> 00:21:07,060
because to a certain extent it's nice to

443
00:21:12,330 --> 00:21:10,060
have this mystery it's part of regional

444
00:21:14,430 --> 00:21:12,340
folklore but to get back to your

445
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:14,440
question it's interesting in recent

446
00:21:19,230 --> 00:21:17,290
years you've got all these paranormal

447
00:21:22,140 --> 00:21:19,240
groups have popped up across the united

448
00:21:23,730 --> 00:21:22,150
states looking for ghosts you've got UFO

449
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:23,740
groups that have been around for a long

450
00:21:28,410 --> 00:21:26,050
time you've got these Bigfoot groups

451
00:21:31,170 --> 00:21:28,420
other cryptozoological groups and champ

452
00:21:33,930 --> 00:21:31,180
would fall under that yeah and what I've

453
00:21:37,650 --> 00:21:33,940
nose noticed about these groups and it's

454
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:37,660
very evident is that you get a lot of

455
00:21:43,830 --> 00:21:40,770
infighting and a lot of rivalries and

456
00:21:44,940 --> 00:21:43,840
sorted feuds between these people I

457
00:21:49,170 --> 00:21:44,950
steer come

458
00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:49,180
pletely clear of these groups and what I

459
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:51,520
find interesting is I think it's kind of

460
00:21:57,210 --> 00:21:53,170
like the movie Highlander there can be

461
00:22:00,780 --> 00:21:57,220
only one the first want to prove that

462
00:22:03,270 --> 00:22:00,790
ghosts are real or prove that champ

463
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:03,280
exists or that there's an ET out there

464
00:22:08,220 --> 00:22:05,890
and it's interesting and you know if

465
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:08,230
there's a ghost it's not just there's a

466
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:09,730
big emotional attachment here it's not

467
00:22:15,420 --> 00:22:12,010
just that there's a ghost but it's

468
00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:15,430
potentially proof of life after death we

469
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:18,310
come into contact and prove that there

470
00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:21,330
are space aliens but perhaps they could

471
00:22:26,940 --> 00:22:24,640
give us their technology and we could be

472
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:26,950
elevated to the immortal realm of the

473
00:22:31,950 --> 00:22:29,170
gods so to speak and then you ask

474
00:22:36,510 --> 00:22:31,960
yourself what's the big power with champ

475
00:22:39,810 --> 00:22:36,520
I think champ is an anti scientific

476
00:22:42,420 --> 00:22:39,820
symbol in a secular age every time

477
00:22:44,700 --> 00:22:42,430
somebody sees a champ sighting and

478
00:22:49,110 --> 00:22:44,710
science claims well champ is not likely

479
00:22:51,690 --> 00:22:49,120
to exist well it it flies in the face of

480
00:22:54,210 --> 00:22:51,700
science as well scientists are wrong and

481
00:22:56,220 --> 00:22:54,220
if they're wrong about champ maybe the

482
00:22:59,130 --> 00:22:56,230
wrong about religion what's the old

483
00:23:00,510 --> 00:22:59,140
expression i get this frequently in my

484
00:23:03,570 --> 00:23:00,520
position and you've probably heard it

485
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:03,580
yourself in arguments with believers for

486
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:05,890
lack of a better word i'll often use the

487
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:07,690
tired old expression well science

488
00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:10,930
doesn't know everything yeah well here's

489
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:12,910
my question when you when you come not

490
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:14,410
to get off on a tangent but when we

491
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:18,730
mentioned ghosts why aren't ghosts naked

492
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:21,970
yes I mean why do they have clothes on

493
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:24,850
isn't that interesting I I like to also

494
00:23:30,090 --> 00:23:27,520
come back if people ask me about ghostal

495
00:23:31,980 --> 00:23:30,100
they tell me about ghosts I try to steer

496
00:23:34,410 --> 00:23:31,990
them back to science and I say well how

497
00:23:35,790 --> 00:23:34,420
do ghosts see things without eyes or how

498
00:23:37,980 --> 00:23:35,800
do you hear what they have to say or

499
00:23:40,020 --> 00:23:37,990
people hearing them with if the ghost

500
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:40,030
hasn't got vocal chords and I just try

501
00:23:46,350 --> 00:23:41,890
to bring it back to that doesn't go get

502
00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:46,360
me very far at least I try yes so in a

503
00:23:50,310 --> 00:23:48,130
sentence my conclusion here with the

504
00:23:52,740 --> 00:23:50,320
research I did what is that hey it's

505
00:23:55,170 --> 00:23:52,750
possible that champ does exist there are

506
00:23:58,440 --> 00:23:55,180
some interesting sightings out there but

507
00:24:03,030 --> 00:23:58,450
as a scientist I need a body fossils

508
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:03,040
bones DNA evidence I need some concrete

509
00:24:09,210 --> 00:24:05,650
proof if not a smoking gun that a

510
00:24:12,570 --> 00:24:09,220
floating gun something floating on the

511
00:24:14,730 --> 00:24:12,580
surface unfortunately there's a human

512
00:24:17,930 --> 00:24:14,740
side here a human element in a really

513
00:24:21,660 --> 00:24:17,940
seedy side to champ where you get

514
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:21,670
cryptozoologists who have used

515
00:24:28,470 --> 00:24:24,730
revisionist history and maybe the man

516
00:24:29,970 --> 00:24:28,480
see photo is a photo of champ but

517
00:24:32,790 --> 00:24:29,980
there's some information out there

518
00:24:34,740 --> 00:24:32,800
that's been hidden from the public in

519
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:34,750
the public has a right to know this

520
00:24:39,540 --> 00:24:36,490
information and that's one of the

521
00:24:41,310 --> 00:24:39,550
reasons i published my book and then you

522
00:24:42,810 --> 00:24:41,320
get these researchers who like elizabeth

523
00:24:44,580 --> 00:24:42,820
juan magan thaller claims to hear the

524
00:24:46,740 --> 00:24:44,590
creature under the water and you get

525
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:46,750
this guy Dennis J hall who founded champ

526
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:48,970
quest in the 1990s he was the public

527
00:24:54,420 --> 00:24:51,850
face of champ for about 15 years and

528
00:24:58,010 --> 00:24:54,430
when you start digging into his past you

529
00:25:01,380 --> 00:24:58,020
find that he claims to have had 23

530
00:25:03,390 --> 00:25:01,390
separate sightings and as a child he

531
00:25:07,140 --> 00:25:03,400
claims to have cradle a baby champ in

532
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:07,150
his arms and say to myself well well

533
00:25:11,610 --> 00:25:09,370
champ maybe I'll exist but don't look to

534
00:25:13,770 --> 00:25:11,620
this guy if you're looking for evidence

535
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:13,780
it reminds me of that housewife in New

536
00:25:18,540 --> 00:25:16,210
Mexico who a number of years ago burned

537
00:25:21,060 --> 00:25:18,550
a tortilla on her skillet and she

538
00:25:23,430 --> 00:25:21,070
thought she saw the face of Jesus this

539
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:23,440
guy sees champ everywhere it probably's

540
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:27,490
back up in his sink even that or he's

541
00:25:34,980 --> 00:25:32,530
just really really lucky yeah well in

542
00:25:38,220 --> 00:25:34,990
the bath as well if I thought there

543
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:38,230
could be that listen I love this what I

544
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:39,730
refer to this sort of thing as good

545
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:41,200
old-fashioned skepticism because it's

546
00:25:44,010 --> 00:25:42,730
one of the reasons I've got interested

547
00:25:46,890 --> 00:25:44,020
in this whole realm when I was only a

548
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:46,900
very small boy was things like monsters

549
00:25:53,610 --> 00:25:49,890
and Bigfoots and strange searches for

550
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:53,620
mysterious things like this and the the

551
00:25:57,390 --> 00:25:55,210
monster there in Lake Champlain is

552
00:26:00,000 --> 00:25:57,400
certainly up there with the best of

553
00:26:02,370 --> 00:26:00,010
these sort of folk laws and stories and

554
00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:02,380
mysteries the book is called the untold

555
00:26:06,930 --> 00:26:04,510
story of champ a social history of

556
00:26:08,820 --> 00:26:06,940
America's Loch Ness monster the author

557
00:26:11,130 --> 00:26:08,830
is Robert by following you now Robert

558
00:26:11,810 --> 00:26:11,140
where can people get ahold of your book

559
00:26:14,300 --> 00:26:11,820
and find out

560
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:14,310
more ah you can get it at bookstores or

561
00:26:19,100 --> 00:26:17,010
amazon online that's the place to head

562
00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:19,110
folks just search for that title and I'm

563
00:26:23,030 --> 00:26:20,640
sure you'll find it looks like a

564
00:26:24,620 --> 00:26:23,040
fascinating read I can't wait to have a

565
00:26:26,780 --> 00:26:24,630
look through those pages and find out

566
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:26,790
more myself well Robert I hope to catch

567
00:26:29,930 --> 00:26:28,320
up with you one day I only live in

568
00:26:31,580 --> 00:26:29,940
sydney australia and it's only across

569
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:31,590
the ditch to auckland so maybe one day

570
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:33,690
we can meet up and discuss a few more

571
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:35,730
monsters sure and you know what that

572
00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:37,890
brings up to me when I think of going

573
00:26:43,310 --> 00:26:39,510
from Australia to New Zealand sea

574
00:26:44,810 --> 00:26:43,320
serpents yes how come at the 1800's

575
00:26:47,780 --> 00:26:44,820
people were seeing sea serpents all over

576
00:26:51,620 --> 00:26:47,790
the place now they rarely see sea

577
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:51,630
serpents but they see UFOs well that's

578
00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:53,490
an interesting one maybe they all left

579
00:26:58,700 --> 00:26:56,370
in UFOs you never know even heaven there

580
00:27:11,110 --> 00:26:58,710
Rob about all of you thank you very much

581
00:27:15,950 --> 00:27:13,669
did you see that UFO sighting that made

582
00:27:17,659 --> 00:27:15,960
the news what did that latest study

583
00:27:20,090 --> 00:27:17,669
about alternative treatments really say

584
00:27:23,030 --> 00:27:20,100
is this photo making the rounds real or

585
00:27:24,919 --> 00:27:23,040
hoax duffle news is a unique website

586
00:27:27,049 --> 00:27:24,929
featuring news about pseudoscience the

587
00:27:28,780 --> 00:27:27,059
paranormal anomalies and questionable

588
00:27:31,730 --> 00:27:28,790
claims framed with the skeptical view

589
00:27:33,490 --> 00:27:31,740
come visit doubtful newscom every day

590
00:27:37,220 --> 00:27:33,500
for news about cryptozoology

591
00:27:40,130 --> 00:27:37,230
conspiracies shams scams and more follow

592
00:27:41,659 --> 00:27:40,140
us on twitter at doubtful news critical

593
00:27:43,970 --> 00:27:41,669
thinking is essential in assessing

594
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:43,980
today's news duffel news helps you

595
00:28:00,850 --> 00:27:57,950
his may not spooky action at the

596
00:28:05,030 --> 00:28:03,080
well I'm here in the green room which

597
00:28:06,740 --> 00:28:05,040
you may have heard me mention earlier is

598
00:28:09,860 --> 00:28:06,750
not green and actually there's no one

599
00:28:12,350 --> 00:28:09,870
here except rebecca watson hello Wow how

600
00:28:14,060 --> 00:28:12,360
are you the feisty rebecca watson that's

601
00:28:15,170 --> 00:28:14,070
a word I like seeing put in front of

602
00:28:18,350 --> 00:28:15,180
your name would you agree with that i

603
00:28:20,330 --> 00:28:18,360
love i love the adjective feisty and it

604
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:20,340
beats most of the adjectives that people

605
00:28:26,330 --> 00:28:23,490
usually call me let's talk about science

606
00:28:27,740 --> 00:28:26,340
the science of hair dye now how old are

607
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:27,750
you and your first dyed your hair a

608
00:28:36,290 --> 00:28:30,530
fruity loud color what year was that Oh

609
00:28:38,870 --> 00:28:36,300
honestly like 30 because we've been

610
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:38,880
discussing how even in the early 90s you

611
00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:40,770
couldn't get a good real solid red to

612
00:28:45,230 --> 00:28:42,720
last longer than a day or two but

613
00:28:47,780 --> 00:28:45,240
science has helped us have loud colors

614
00:28:49,460 --> 00:28:47,790
now for weeks on an end Oh months no I

615
00:28:52,430 --> 00:28:49,470
never even occurred to me to dye my hair

616
00:28:54,110 --> 00:28:52,440
a crazy color and then I just saw manic

617
00:28:56,690 --> 00:28:54,120
panic in the store one day and I thought

618
00:28:58,970 --> 00:28:56,700
yeah okay so I did it to my own hair and

619
00:29:02,180 --> 00:28:58,980
it's terrible i'm not good i'm not good

620
00:29:04,490 --> 00:29:02,190
at it and so I ended up going to a salon

621
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:04,500
for like the first time in years cuz I'm

622
00:29:10,490 --> 00:29:08,130
cheap and I don't care how I look and so

623
00:29:12,590 --> 00:29:10,500
I went to a salon I'm like can you give

624
00:29:14,540 --> 00:29:12,600
me I want my hair to be red but whatever

625
00:29:15,770 --> 00:29:14,550
you do I don't want it to look natural I

626
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:15,780
just don't want it to look like I'm

627
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:17,610
trying to be something I'm not I just

628
00:29:22,970 --> 00:29:21,210
wanted to be ridiculous you know also be

629
00:29:25,070 --> 00:29:22,980
an experiment in perception equals

630
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:25,080
reality so you change a head to a weird

631
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:27,410
color people then perceive that Rebecca

632
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:30,090
she's not like us anymore right yeah

633
00:29:35,150 --> 00:29:32,850
well I do the attention I get it has

634
00:29:37,370 --> 00:29:35,160
changed mostly from strangers but i love

635
00:29:40,010 --> 00:29:37,380
it because the biggest difference has

636
00:29:42,140 --> 00:29:40,020
been in how children treat me children

637
00:29:48,020 --> 00:29:42,150
particularly little girls like from the

638
00:29:49,850 --> 00:29:48,030
age of i'd say for up to 12 love me love

639
00:29:52,370 --> 00:29:49,860
me immediately there's a girl at this

640
00:29:55,220 --> 00:29:52,380
conference who walked up to me sat down

641
00:29:56,990 --> 00:29:55,230
and did not leave my side yesterday is

642
00:29:59,000 --> 00:29:57,000
all yes i'll show you with her is that

643
00:30:00,650 --> 00:29:59,010
because you like a living doll with

644
00:30:01,970 --> 00:30:00,660
really loud hair or because they see a

645
00:30:03,620 --> 00:30:01,980
bright color or because they would

646
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:03,630
really love to have the hair too i think

647
00:30:09,799 --> 00:30:05,610
all those things i think one of them is

648
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:09,809
that I kind of look like RL

649
00:30:14,789 --> 00:30:12,970
so I think there's that and yeah I think

650
00:30:17,310 --> 00:30:14,799
it's like a fun color and that you know

651
00:30:19,049 --> 00:30:17,320
they think oh fun person and yeah so

652
00:30:21,450 --> 00:30:19,059
kids love it and so that makes me happy

653
00:30:23,549 --> 00:30:21,460
because I love kids they're way more fun

654
00:30:25,860 --> 00:30:23,559
than adults and look and of course being

655
00:30:28,529 --> 00:30:25,870
an adult polarizer the hair is a

656
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:28,539
polarizer and of course by its very

657
00:30:32,279 --> 00:30:30,610
definition it's a two-edged sword how do

658
00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:32,289
you handle being a polarizer both in

659
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:34,510
personality and perception equals really

660
00:30:38,580 --> 00:30:36,130
all that Rebecca she's let me even

661
00:30:41,190 --> 00:30:38,590
though they've never met you yeah yeah

662
00:30:43,500 --> 00:30:41,200
it's funny I mean the thing is that i

663
00:30:45,450 --> 00:30:43,510
don't really like conflicts a lot it

664
00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:45,460
makes me nervous and I I like getting

665
00:30:48,930 --> 00:30:47,110
along with people and you know if

666
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:48,940
anybody who's met me in person knows

667
00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:51,130
that I just I like to hang out and have

668
00:30:55,260 --> 00:30:53,289
fun and you know get to know people and

669
00:30:56,580 --> 00:30:55,270
have interesting discussions but of

670
00:31:00,210 --> 00:30:56,590
course a lot of times that can't happen

671
00:31:03,450 --> 00:31:00,220
online you know people like polarization

672
00:31:05,610 --> 00:31:03,460
I think and so you know in a way I don't

673
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:05,620
really mind it anymore because even

674
00:31:08,490 --> 00:31:06,880
though it still sort of stresses me out

675
00:31:12,180 --> 00:31:08,500
sometimes for the most part I would

676
00:31:14,190 --> 00:31:12,190
rather be polarizing than boring I'd

677
00:31:17,940 --> 00:31:14,200
rather say something that people find

678
00:31:20,010 --> 00:31:17,950
interesting and that Spurs people to

679
00:31:21,419 --> 00:31:20,020
discussion than to say something that

680
00:31:23,070 --> 00:31:21,429
just has everybody not in an agreement

681
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:23,080
because if everybody already agrees with

682
00:31:27,450 --> 00:31:25,210
you what's the point of saying it that's

683
00:31:29,039 --> 00:31:27,460
true now here's a situation happened in

684
00:31:31,889 --> 00:31:29,049
Australia which I'd like your opinion on

685
00:31:33,630 --> 00:31:31,899
we had a celebrity here Charlotte Dawson

686
00:31:35,850 --> 00:31:33,640
who had horrible things said about her

687
00:31:37,740 --> 00:31:35,860
on Twitter not on Facebook just on

688
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:37,750
Twitter and she went through a very bad

689
00:31:41,490 --> 00:31:39,490
experience with that and she found out

690
00:31:43,230 --> 00:31:41,500
the IP addresses of the people took a

691
00:31:44,580 --> 00:31:43,240
cram and crew to them and confronted

692
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:44,590
them in the street and said some of the

693
00:31:48,060 --> 00:31:46,210
things to them that she she had

694
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:48,070
experienced from them to their face

695
00:31:51,389 --> 00:31:49,450
would that be the kind of thing you were

696
00:31:54,090 --> 00:31:51,399
applauded or would you ever want to do

697
00:31:56,700 --> 00:31:54,100
that I don't know that I would

698
00:31:57,930 --> 00:31:56,710
personally do it but I kind of loved

699
00:32:00,330 --> 00:31:57,940
that because I must have been really

700
00:32:03,389 --> 00:32:00,340
awkward and terrible and I love things

701
00:32:05,549 --> 00:32:03,399
like did surprise me is that the people

702
00:32:08,010 --> 00:32:05,559
themselves didn't seem to mind being

703
00:32:09,899 --> 00:32:08,020
confronted by her it was almost like you

704
00:32:11,490 --> 00:32:09,909
got to see the people that do this kind

705
00:32:12,930 --> 00:32:11,500
of thing that was actually what was the

706
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:12,940
embarrassment for them the fact the fact

707
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:14,770
that they were getting abused slammed at

708
00:32:18,149 --> 00:32:16,690
them they kind of took except there's

709
00:32:19,950 --> 00:32:18,159
one guy who worked in a fish and chip

710
00:32:20,330 --> 00:32:19,960
shop and he was behind the counter and

711
00:32:23,390 --> 00:32:20,340
she

712
00:32:25,970 --> 00:32:23,400
it was almost like he was going to cry

713
00:32:27,860 --> 00:32:25,980
it was like okay add but then the other

714
00:32:29,510 --> 00:32:27,870
ones took the abuse but then you look

715
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:29,520
the kind of people they were in you're

716
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:31,770
going wonder why you said you wanted

717
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:33,690
this woman to die why would you say

718
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:35,730
something like that what kind of abuse

719
00:32:39,769 --> 00:32:37,440
was she giving to them though or was she

720
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:39,779
just saying she's basically repeating to

721
00:32:42,740 --> 00:32:41,610
them what they'd said to her it was

722
00:32:45,230 --> 00:32:42,750
mainly and mainly a whole bunch of

723
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:45,240
expletives but yeah that was very

724
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:47,130
personal and some of it was based on the

725
00:32:51,169 --> 00:32:48,690
looks and some of us based on the fact

726
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:51,179
that i'm not sure what the issue was

727
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:52,559
with i think the fact that she was a

728
00:32:56,990 --> 00:32:54,240
famous woman and they'd picked her as a

729
00:32:59,090 --> 00:32:57,000
target for that day yeah I I find really

730
00:33:01,010 --> 00:32:59,100
interesting because I i find the

731
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:01,020
psychology of those people to be very

732
00:33:06,260 --> 00:33:03,090
interested in it I've spent a lot of

733
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:06,270
time wondering like why do you spend

734
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:08,130
literally all of your time you know

735
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:09,690
they're there people who have entire

736
00:33:13,070 --> 00:33:11,610
blogs they're just about me yeah and

737
00:33:15,260 --> 00:33:13,080
they catalog everything I do and I'm

738
00:33:17,149 --> 00:33:15,270
like what you know what what is your

739
00:33:19,460 --> 00:33:17,159
life like that that's what you do with

740
00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:19,470
it you've been on the pointy end of it

741
00:33:23,779 --> 00:33:22,049
so does that make it harder to analyze

742
00:33:25,070 --> 00:33:23,789
because you're on the pointy end of it

743
00:33:27,500 --> 00:33:25,080
would it be better to go well let's look

744
00:33:28,909 --> 00:33:27,510
at the Watson issue here you know is

745
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:28,919
that you can't do that well yeah I'm

746
00:33:35,419 --> 00:33:32,130
certainly not an unbiased observer but I

747
00:33:37,159 --> 00:33:35,429
do have a lot of data have you got a

748
00:33:39,380 --> 00:33:37,169
theory have you have you got enough raw

749
00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:39,390
data to be able to work out what type of

750
00:33:43,490 --> 00:33:42,000
person does this and why is it a purely

751
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:43,500
misogynistic thing is it because the

752
00:33:46,310 --> 00:33:45,330
cult of celebrity they don't like is it

753
00:33:48,169 --> 00:33:46,320
something or saying that they are

754
00:33:49,399 --> 00:33:48,179
objecting to I think it depends on the

755
00:33:52,039 --> 00:33:49,409
person I think there are several

756
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:52,049
different categories of person that that

757
00:33:57,049 --> 00:33:54,450
do this I think some people might have

758
00:33:59,769 --> 00:33:57,059
legitimate medical issues you know that

759
00:34:04,279 --> 00:33:59,779
there's there's that category like Dave

760
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:04,289
Mabus I am The Canadian guy yes yeah so

761
00:34:09,619 --> 00:34:06,690
me basis' is a person who was arrested

762
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:09,629
and tried and put in a mental

763
00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:11,970
institution for a time but then released

764
00:34:14,839 --> 00:34:13,169
and then he went right back to doing

765
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:14,849
what he's doing and again the problem

766
00:34:18,169 --> 00:34:16,800
with him wasn't okay the threats are

767
00:34:19,970 --> 00:34:18,179
pretty nasty but then there was the

768
00:34:21,379 --> 00:34:19,980
chance that maybe starting showing up at

769
00:34:23,060 --> 00:34:21,389
something these events and people that's

770
00:34:25,010 --> 00:34:23,070
what concerned people yeah he never

771
00:34:27,740 --> 00:34:25,020
really bothered like I I did get a ton

772
00:34:30,740 --> 00:34:27,750
of stuff from him and sometimes included

773
00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:30,750
of specific things like to me like

774
00:34:33,859 --> 00:34:31,679
Rebecca died or

775
00:34:35,210 --> 00:34:33,869
something like that but personally I was

776
00:34:37,339 --> 00:34:35,220
never very threatened by him but he did

777
00:34:39,500 --> 00:34:37,349
turn up at a an atheist conference once

778
00:34:41,470 --> 00:34:39,510
and that's when I was like okay no

779
00:34:43,819 --> 00:34:41,480
somebody should do something about this

780
00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:43,829
so you know that's that's one category

781
00:34:48,829 --> 00:34:45,649
some people who need medical

782
00:34:50,270 --> 00:34:48,839
intervention there are but there are

783
00:34:53,119 --> 00:34:50,280
other people who were just I think just

784
00:34:55,579 --> 00:34:53,129
sad just have sad lives you know and I

785
00:34:57,220 --> 00:34:55,589
have a lot of hatred and because I've

786
00:34:59,329 --> 00:34:57,230
spent a lot of time wondering you know

787
00:35:02,420 --> 00:34:59,339
sometimes when I see things that people

788
00:35:04,790 --> 00:35:02,430
do to me I wonder what would what sort

789
00:35:07,339 --> 00:35:04,800
of person would I do that to you know

790
00:35:09,319 --> 00:35:07,349
what I ever hate someone so much that I

791
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:09,329
made a blog about them for instance and

792
00:35:13,549 --> 00:35:10,650
catalogues everything they were doing

793
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:13,559
everything like Jenny McCarthy or Oprah

794
00:35:17,569 --> 00:35:16,410
or like Ben Stein you know and I

795
00:35:21,740 --> 00:35:17,579
couldn't actually think of anybody that

796
00:35:24,049 --> 00:35:21,750
I would be that obsessed over and so I

797
00:35:25,460 --> 00:35:24,059
do wonder if there are some people who

798
00:35:27,950 --> 00:35:25,470
just don't have a whole lot going on in

799
00:35:30,799 --> 00:35:27,960
their life and that they sort of latch

800
00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:30,809
on to me as something because as a hobby

801
00:35:35,089 --> 00:35:32,910
with you it's usually issue-based it's

802
00:35:37,490 --> 00:35:35,099
what the person is doing or their the

803
00:35:38,780 --> 00:35:37,500
philosophy and you might touch on it a

804
00:35:40,910 --> 00:35:38,790
few times but you don't make a whole

805
00:35:43,069 --> 00:35:40,920
blog to it yet yeah no no yeah maybe

806
00:35:44,990 --> 00:35:43,079
maybe one of these days I tell you what

807
00:35:47,059 --> 00:35:45,000
makes me shake my fist at the screen is

808
00:35:48,410 --> 00:35:47,069
when you're at work you're in your

809
00:35:49,849 --> 00:35:48,420
cubicle or you're in your little dimly

810
00:35:51,589 --> 00:35:49,859
lit thing down the end of town and

811
00:35:53,630 --> 00:35:51,599
someone puts on facebook a photo of

812
00:35:57,109 --> 00:35:53,640
themselves on the beach drinking wine on

813
00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:57,119
a sunny day on holidays noisy at that

814
00:36:01,039 --> 00:35:59,040
moment you could build an entire website

815
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:01,049
devoted to that person and you hate them

816
00:36:04,609 --> 00:36:02,490
because having a bit of time than you

817
00:36:06,559 --> 00:36:04,619
maybe that's that that's a fractal of

818
00:36:09,470 --> 00:36:06,569
what what they feel about you also I

819
00:36:11,329 --> 00:36:09,480
have a friend of mine actually I don't

820
00:36:14,599 --> 00:36:11,339
know if you if you're familiar Jay

821
00:36:16,069 --> 00:36:14,609
novella is a co-host of the skeptics

822
00:36:18,500 --> 00:36:16,079
Katya universe and not gonna say and

823
00:36:20,569 --> 00:36:18,510
look what I found this there's a fetlife

824
00:36:22,970 --> 00:36:20,579
group called I one perv on rebecca

825
00:36:25,039 --> 00:36:22,980
watson there is no fitlifer if i want to

826
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:25,049
/ bon je novella despite the fact

827
00:36:28,309 --> 00:36:26,880
demonstrably better looking at me now

828
00:36:30,650 --> 00:36:28,319
you know you can do something about that

829
00:36:31,940 --> 00:36:30,660
I think I'm starting one but the problem

830
00:36:33,140 --> 00:36:31,950
was that I was expecting to be a whole

831
00:36:36,230 --> 00:36:33,150
bunch of guys on yours and it was all

832
00:36:37,819 --> 00:36:36,240
women right and so maybe I'm the guy

833
00:36:39,650 --> 00:36:37,829
that needs to start the fetlife J

834
00:36:41,030 --> 00:36:39,660
novella group I think you should someone

835
00:36:42,170 --> 00:36:41,040
told me about that group and at first I

836
00:36:43,150 --> 00:36:42,180
said you know I don't know how to feel

837
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:43,160
about this

838
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:45,410
but then a couple of my friends are on

839
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:46,850
fetlife and they went checked it out and

840
00:36:51,910 --> 00:36:48,170
they came back and they're like no it's

841
00:36:53,590 --> 00:36:51,920
cool they're off they're all cool it's

842
00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:53,600
okay to have a group of people further

843
00:36:58,060 --> 00:36:56,000
on you as long as they cool yeah purba

844
00:37:00,400 --> 00:36:58,070
way pervs love you are you gonna keep

845
00:37:02,260 --> 00:37:00,410
pervin yeah it's almost like you know

846
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:02,270
they should make you the admin yes all

847
00:37:06,430 --> 00:37:04,250
right it's okay just as long as I've of

848
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:06,440
the person on the door but yeah look I'm

849
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:08,210
gonna work on the j1 Brooke people I

850
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:10,130
hate people I could I could start a

851
00:37:14,950 --> 00:37:12,650
whole hate thing about so um Jay has a

852
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:14,960
wife Courtney who is low middle yeah

853
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:17,690
she's one of the most wonderful sweetest

854
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:20,210
people on the planet intelligent that

855
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:22,250
itself is really annoying yes this is

856
00:37:27,550 --> 00:37:24,290
what I'm okay listen she's super smart

857
00:37:28,900 --> 00:37:27,560
she's a very sweet and when the kindest

858
00:37:30,940 --> 00:37:28,910
people I've ever met let me guess she's

859
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:30,950
patient she's the patient well she's

860
00:37:37,060 --> 00:37:34,250
married to Jane avella okay she's

861
00:37:38,980 --> 00:37:37,070
gorgeous and right now she is pregnant

862
00:37:42,670 --> 00:37:38,990
she's got to be like six seven months

863
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:42,680
pregnant now still gorgeous really

864
00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:44,930
heater yeah but I can't hate her she's

865
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:47,710
so nice she's the best hello and

866
00:37:51,790 --> 00:37:49,610
everything will prolly go perfectly

867
00:37:53,830 --> 00:37:51,800
everything go ride the day after the

868
00:37:55,330 --> 00:37:53,840
birth she'll be doing modeling so you

869
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:55,340
know she's gonna immediately lose other

870
00:38:00,520 --> 00:37:57,530
way so I'm gonna start a blog about

871
00:38:03,340 --> 00:38:00,530
Courtney yeah which I try to find a flaw

872
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:03,350
somewhere and was ever been chatting to

873
00:38:05,710 --> 00:38:04,730
you in Melbourne about obviously lots of

874
00:38:07,090 --> 00:38:05,720
people coming up too because there's

875
00:38:08,410 --> 00:38:07,100
been a little girl pulling your hair is

876
00:38:10,300 --> 00:38:08,420
a good thing which is a great color to

877
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:10,310
be yanked on whatever we talking about

878
00:38:14,500 --> 00:38:12,290
having a topic oh man everybody has been

879
00:38:16,990 --> 00:38:14,510
so great and the topic has mostly been

880
00:38:18,940 --> 00:38:17,000
just love and support a lot of people

881
00:38:22,330 --> 00:38:18,950
who are fans of s view or fans of

882
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:22,340
skeptic or you know just like my talk or

883
00:38:29,110 --> 00:38:25,610
things like just it's making my head so

884
00:38:32,140 --> 00:38:29,120
big it's not healthy for me but it's

885
00:38:34,990 --> 00:38:32,150
amazing i love everybody here and pretty

886
00:38:36,820 --> 00:38:35,000
much everyone I speak to finds there's

887
00:38:38,260 --> 00:38:36,830
normally an issue you the skeptic start

888
00:38:40,930 --> 00:38:38,270
to universe link somewhere along the

889
00:38:42,610 --> 00:38:40,940
line there um I came to the skeptic to a

890
00:38:44,140 --> 00:38:42,620
guide to the universe through the no

891
00:38:46,780 --> 00:38:44,150
agenda show actually I started with the

892
00:38:48,130 --> 00:38:46,790
adam curry no agenda show and itunes

893
00:38:49,780 --> 00:38:48,140
said Youm a lot might like these other

894
00:38:51,610 --> 00:38:49,790
shows so I listened to you guys and then

895
00:38:52,270 --> 00:38:51,620
I was in the skip exam that i work on

896
00:38:55,180 --> 00:38:52,280
now

897
00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:55,190
that and then the show's had such a long

898
00:38:59,680 --> 00:38:56,720
history where do you say I don't know

899
00:39:01,090 --> 00:38:59,690
why it isn't on free-to-air in the US I

900
00:39:03,190 --> 00:39:01,100
know you have to have ads and stuff on

901
00:39:04,510 --> 00:39:03,200
that but what it's the land I think I

902
00:39:06,250 --> 00:39:04,520
said there's a Jay it's a land of the

903
00:39:08,770 --> 00:39:06,260
middlemen people will sell anything to

904
00:39:11,230 --> 00:39:08,780
anyone in America why can't the SUV sold

905
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:11,240
as a regular radio show yeah that would

906
00:39:15,700 --> 00:39:13,850
take a number of things to happen one we

907
00:39:18,010 --> 00:39:15,710
would need a lot more time and business

908
00:39:20,500 --> 00:39:18,020
sense anything to have that happen

909
00:39:23,650 --> 00:39:20,510
because in order to get a show on in the

910
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:23,660
States you generally need to have edited

911
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:26,690
down to you know to the millisecond you

912
00:39:31,540 --> 00:39:29,450
know to the clock and right now it's you

913
00:39:33,100 --> 00:39:31,550
know see spends a lot of time editing

914
00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:33,110
and you know an hour and twenty

915
00:39:38,110 --> 00:39:35,510
something minutes cutting it down to I

916
00:39:39,310 --> 00:39:38,120
think an hour for satellite radio but in

917
00:39:41,740 --> 00:39:39,320
that case there's no commercial breaks

918
00:39:43,750 --> 00:39:41,750
that need to be cut in the way does on

919
00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:43,760
commercial radio in the States or on

920
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:45,110
well actually not familiar with

921
00:39:49,540 --> 00:39:47,090
commercial radio so much is public radio

922
00:39:51,460 --> 00:39:49,550
but public radio yeah you have to adhere

923
00:39:53,410 --> 00:39:51,470
to an exact clock and then you need to

924
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:53,420
sell it in every market and you know

925
00:39:58,150 --> 00:39:56,450
it's it's not easy to do it would be

926
00:40:00,340 --> 00:39:58,160
something would be great i would love to

927
00:40:02,590 --> 00:40:00,350
have that happen but right now with all

928
00:40:04,630 --> 00:40:02,600
of us so busy with other things and they

929
00:40:07,690 --> 00:40:04,640
have jobs and families I know the job

930
00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:07,700
this is my job but I know how many seas

931
00:40:11,860 --> 00:40:10,250
I should get on this I know you're on

932
00:40:13,300 --> 00:40:11,870
your way to New Zealand you've been

933
00:40:14,140 --> 00:40:13,310
moving lots of t-shirts down there

934
00:40:15,970 --> 00:40:14,150
you've been at you've been having a

935
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:15,980
really good time I've been asking some a

936
00:40:19,660 --> 00:40:17,570
few people here might ask you what is

937
00:40:22,060 --> 00:40:19,670
the one bit of paranormal whoo ghost

938
00:40:24,220 --> 00:40:22,070
UFOs you'd like to be true what is the

939
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:24,230
one thing that you go Wow water does

940
00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:25,850
have a memory I mean what is the kind of

941
00:40:30,610 --> 00:40:27,250
thing you would like to actually be real

942
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:30,620
unicorns definitely unicorns not the not

943
00:40:35,500 --> 00:40:32,930
the nice unicorns but the vengeful angry

944
00:40:38,470 --> 00:40:35,510
unicorns that stabbed you in this is the

945
00:40:40,540 --> 00:40:38,480
drunken light not unicorns on it where

946
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:40,550
do these exist I don't even say pink

947
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:42,650
ones on little girls walls and stuff I

948
00:40:45,940 --> 00:40:44,690
haven't seen these vengeful unicorns now

949
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:45,950
yeah you need to get with the program

950
00:40:50,740 --> 00:40:48,170
that's that's that's the true unicorn

951
00:40:52,450 --> 00:40:50,750
it's an angry unicorn it's deadly it

952
00:40:56,170 --> 00:40:52,460
will stab you through the chest have you

953
00:40:57,820 --> 00:40:56,180
seen cabin in the woods no I'm not gonna

954
00:40:59,380 --> 00:40:57,830
say any more because there are that's

955
00:41:01,330 --> 00:40:59,390
I've already given I've already said too

956
00:41:04,090 --> 00:41:01,340
much but it's one of the greatest horror

957
00:41:05,300 --> 00:41:04,100
films ever created Joss Whedon go watch

958
00:41:06,500 --> 00:41:05,310
it okay and

959
00:41:07,610 --> 00:41:06,510
cause the big question that's been doing

960
00:41:09,410 --> 00:41:07,620
the rounds here in Australia I think

961
00:41:12,670 --> 00:41:09,420
it's in been raised in Parliament James

962
00:41:17,030 --> 00:41:12,680
Bond bisexual or not Oh totally bisexual

963
00:41:18,410 --> 00:41:17,040
totally yeah love it yeah oh and every

964
00:41:21,110 --> 00:41:18,420
villain he's ever fall it has been

965
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:21,120
homosexual I me and and you as a CAD

966
00:41:25,220 --> 00:41:23,010
person would have a thing words with

967
00:41:26,510 --> 00:41:25,230
many of the Roger Moore and Sean Connery

968
00:41:28,940 --> 00:41:26,520
villains cuz they got the cat going on

969
00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:28,950
that's true I'm into him I'm into him

970
00:41:31,790 --> 00:41:30,240
sometimes I'm a little more into the

971
00:41:33,470 --> 00:41:31,800
villain than I am into James Bond but

972
00:41:34,940 --> 00:41:33,480
what can I say well we have to finish

973
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:34,950
with the what's next for rebecca watson

974
00:41:41,630 --> 00:41:38,130
what is next oh you know what sleep i

975
00:41:43,610 --> 00:41:41,640
have been i've been traveling every

976
00:41:46,130 --> 00:41:43,620
weekend for the last several months at

977
00:41:48,050 --> 00:41:46,140
different conferences and i am so like

978
00:41:49,340 --> 00:41:48,060
as much as fun as I'm having here and as

979
00:41:51,890 --> 00:41:49,350
much fun as I'm gonna have in new

980
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:51,900
zealand next week cannot wait to get

981
00:41:57,290 --> 00:41:54,450
home with the cats curl up in bed with a

982
00:41:59,240 --> 00:41:57,300
good book and relax for like a month

983
00:42:00,800 --> 00:41:59,250
before i have to go somewhere else Oh

984
00:42:01,970 --> 00:42:00,810
will like to mention one last question

985
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:01,980
because this interview I did with this

986
00:42:05,810 --> 00:42:04,170
person probably won't make the show but

987
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:05,820
I will relate it to you with the meet

988
00:42:08,390 --> 00:42:07,170
and greet the other night and I said

989
00:42:09,890 --> 00:42:08,400
I'll who looking forward to meeting in

990
00:42:11,540 --> 00:42:09,900
this gentleman said I'm looking forward

991
00:42:13,220 --> 00:42:11,550
to meeting rebecca watson but she's

992
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:13,230
married so i better not go up to her and

993
00:42:17,630 --> 00:42:15,810
I said I'm sorry and he said she's

994
00:42:19,490 --> 00:42:17,640
married so I've been no copter I said I

995
00:42:22,340 --> 00:42:19,500
think you can talk to married women in

996
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:22,350
an open space and I don't think hitting

997
00:42:27,890 --> 00:42:25,920
honor is compulsory either um did I have

998
00:42:31,190 --> 00:42:27,900
no idea where that mindset came from do

999
00:42:34,910 --> 00:42:31,200
you get that it's like we're in Saudi

1000
00:42:36,650 --> 00:42:34,920
Arabia very very odd and it's totally a

1001
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:36,660
little insulting to Saudi Arabia because

1002
00:42:40,670 --> 00:42:38,130
I think of it in there maybe that's not

1003
00:42:42,290 --> 00:42:40,680
that big of a deal I don't know yeah I

1004
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:42,300
know yeah I just couldn't I couldn't

1005
00:42:45,590 --> 00:42:43,890
work it out because it wasn't like the

1006
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:45,600
person so enamored with you because they

1007
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:46,890
were saying it quite calmly and

1008
00:42:51,110 --> 00:42:49,170
rationally it was like it was going to

1009
00:42:54,050 --> 00:42:51,120
be offensive to I don't know what it was

1010
00:42:57,830 --> 00:42:54,060
yeah I've had you know I've had people

1011
00:43:01,100 --> 00:42:57,840
say so you know don't want to go into

1012
00:43:05,180 --> 00:43:01,110
the hole elevator [\h__\h] but I had had

1013
00:43:08,180 --> 00:43:05,190
some people say to me like um you know

1014
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:08,190
how dare that guy hit on her not they

1015
00:43:11,540 --> 00:43:09,450
usually don't say to me usually they're

1016
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:11,550
saying another how dare that guy hit on

1017
00:43:16,190 --> 00:43:13,890
her does Danny know she was married and

1018
00:43:17,930 --> 00:43:16,200
I'm like that's you have missed the pole

1019
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:17,940
like I understand that you're trying to

1020
00:43:21,050 --> 00:43:19,530
you think you're on my side but you're

1021
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:21,060
not right that could be one point on the

1022
00:43:24,050 --> 00:43:22,650
list but it ain't near the top and I

1023
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:24,060
don't even think it's a point because I

1024
00:43:28,730 --> 00:43:25,890
think that you know marriage isn't about

1025
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:28,740
possession and I could flirt with people

1026
00:43:33,890 --> 00:43:31,170
if I want you know and and so you know

1027
00:43:36,050 --> 00:43:33,900
I've been separated from my husband for

1028
00:43:37,849 --> 00:43:36,060
several years now I have a boyfriend I

1029
00:43:40,579 --> 00:43:37,859
love and I live with and for the past 29

1030
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:40,589
years I I knew that I just didn't want

1031
00:43:43,700 --> 00:43:41,970
to raise this with this guy to make it

1032
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:43,710
even more confusing for him yeah but

1033
00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:45,570
that's the thing because that's not even

1034
00:43:48,950 --> 00:43:47,730
the the the answer isn't that she's not

1035
00:43:51,319 --> 00:43:48,960
married it's that it shouldn't matter

1036
00:43:53,660 --> 00:43:51,329
because she's not owned by anyone

1037
00:43:55,609 --> 00:43:53,670
whether she's married or not you know

1038
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:55,619
you can go talk to a woman yeah and i

1039
00:43:59,810 --> 00:43:57,570
was able looking at for first cause as

1040
00:44:01,609 --> 00:43:59,820
to why he didn't think he could talk why

1041
00:44:04,609 --> 00:44:01,619
he was feeling this attraction for you

1042
00:44:06,710 --> 00:44:04,619
that was the yeah Wow I mean I do i do

1043
00:44:08,420 --> 00:44:06,720
think it gets back to ownership not to

1044
00:44:11,089 --> 00:44:08,430
not to put too fine a point on it but i

1045
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:11,099
think it it's this feeling that if a

1046
00:44:16,970 --> 00:44:13,650
woman is married that means that her

1047
00:44:18,980 --> 00:44:16,980
husband gets to control her behaviors

1048
00:44:21,589 --> 00:44:18,990
interactions and and in this case

1049
00:44:23,780 --> 00:44:21,599
flirting with her or in this guy's case

1050
00:44:27,079 --> 00:44:23,790
even talking to her apparently would

1051
00:44:29,690 --> 00:44:27,089
seem suspect or e or it was it well it

1052
00:44:31,130 --> 00:44:29,700
wasn't day very strange um actually walk

1053
00:44:32,089 --> 00:44:31,140
will be the topic of your next feminist

1054
00:44:34,460 --> 00:44:32,099
lecture course you've done some really

1055
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:34,470
good ones thank you well right now i'm

1056
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:37,890
doing a talk on the pseudoscience of

1057
00:44:43,099 --> 00:44:39,890
things like how women evolved to shop

1058
00:44:44,660 --> 00:44:43,109
things that make it into our mainstream

1059
00:44:47,809 --> 00:44:44,670
media that is you're just going to touch

1060
00:44:49,099 --> 00:44:47,819
on the cosmetic industry uh no actually

1061
00:44:51,260 --> 00:44:49,109
not really i don't talk too much about

1062
00:44:53,359 --> 00:44:51,270
the cosmetic energy more like things

1063
00:44:55,849 --> 00:44:53,369
that masquerade is science in the

1064
00:44:58,089 --> 00:44:55,859
mainstream media and so the average

1065
00:45:00,500 --> 00:44:58,099
reader would maybe give it a bit more

1066
00:45:01,609 --> 00:45:00,510
credibility than it actually deserves

1067
00:45:03,470 --> 00:45:01,619
because when you look at the science

1068
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:03,480
it's not necessarily there a lot of

1069
00:45:08,359 --> 00:45:05,970
these things are controlled by marketers

1070
00:45:11,359 --> 00:45:08,369
for instance there particularly in the

1071
00:45:13,130 --> 00:45:11,369
UK this is an issue shopping mall you

1072
00:45:16,250 --> 00:45:13,140
know commissions a study to figure out

1073
00:45:18,559 --> 00:45:16,260
why women shop and men don't this is

1074
00:45:20,510 --> 00:45:18,569
what I find if I find offensive and I

1075
00:45:23,170 --> 00:45:20,520
might just be overreacting here but you

1076
00:45:25,089 --> 00:45:23,180
see magazines of its like women shop

1077
00:45:26,319 --> 00:45:25,099
and it makes you feel better and you're

1078
00:45:27,970 --> 00:45:26,329
not actually sure what you're curing in

1079
00:45:29,859 --> 00:45:27,980
the first place that's kind of offensive

1080
00:45:32,170 --> 00:45:29,869
yeah well that's that's what most of

1081
00:45:34,450 --> 00:45:32,180
marketing is about you come up with a

1082
00:45:37,089 --> 00:45:34,460
problem you know invent a problem and

1083
00:45:38,980 --> 00:45:37,099
then sell her something to solve it and

1084
00:45:41,410 --> 00:45:38,990
it's starting to happen more with men as

1085
00:45:44,349 --> 00:45:41,420
well men are starting to get into the

1086
00:45:46,270 --> 00:45:44,359
crosshairs of advertisers more but it's

1087
00:45:48,220 --> 00:45:46,280
been happening with women a lot and

1088
00:45:50,470 --> 00:45:48,230
there's a great mitchell and webb sketch

1089
00:45:53,740 --> 00:45:50,480
about this do you get mitchell and webb

1090
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:53,750
here ok it's a it's a sketch show David

1091
00:45:59,920 --> 00:45:57,170
Mitchell and somebody weapon but anyway

1092
00:46:01,870 --> 00:45:59,930
they do a great sketch where they show

1093
00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:01,880
commercial with it's a woman standing

1094
00:46:07,089 --> 00:46:04,730
there and like woman you know dear

1095
00:46:08,950 --> 00:46:07,099
Gramps her and are you hideous and you

1096
00:46:10,839 --> 00:46:08,960
need to lose weight and what's wrong

1097
00:46:12,490 --> 00:46:10,849
with your hair you know and you know

1098
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:12,500
throwing all these products that are and

1099
00:46:17,490 --> 00:46:15,530
then they they slide over and there's a

1100
00:46:19,990 --> 00:46:17,500
there's a man and they're like men

1101
00:46:24,490 --> 00:46:20,000
everything's fine you look great have a

1102
00:46:26,049 --> 00:46:24,500
beer move along there right oh look

1103
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:26,059
finished with a recommendation for a

1104
00:46:29,260 --> 00:46:27,770
website and a recommendation for a book

1105
00:46:31,030 --> 00:46:29,270
and I'm sorry I'm just I'm really

1106
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:31,040
getting on your time here but you have

1107
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:32,210
you have a lot to say I'm interested

1108
00:46:35,410 --> 00:46:34,130
here because a book I mean for me I'm

1109
00:46:37,180 --> 00:46:35,420
reading bad farmer at the moment I'm

1110
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:37,190
finding that fascinating but I'm just

1111
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:38,210
running there's a book and a website

1112
00:46:40,450 --> 00:46:39,290
you'd like to recommend to us because

1113
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:40,460
there's something you've found that

1114
00:46:44,380 --> 00:46:42,770
maybe we haven't oh man can I think

1115
00:46:45,970 --> 00:46:44,390
about that for justice yeah yeah there's

1116
00:46:49,450 --> 00:46:45,980
done that problem that we think because

1117
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:49,460
I'm my problem is that I I usually read

1118
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:52,490
several books at once because I read a

1119
00:46:56,799 --> 00:46:54,650
lot of skeptical books and sometimes I

1120
00:46:59,380 --> 00:46:56,809
would need to put it down and go read

1121
00:47:01,960 --> 00:46:59,390
some fiction or something look my friend

1122
00:47:03,940 --> 00:47:01,970
Susie Q was a miss miss naked Australia

1123
00:47:05,770 --> 00:47:03,950
and has a couple of degrees she has the

1124
00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:05,780
serious book and the not serious book a

1125
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:07,040
bit like Calvin Klein used to have the

1126
00:47:09,670 --> 00:47:08,210
uppers on one side of the bed and the

1127
00:47:11,140 --> 00:47:09,680
downs and outside of the bed you had the

1128
00:47:13,180 --> 00:47:11,150
book on either side of the bed and you

1129
00:47:16,750 --> 00:47:13,190
balance it yeah alright so right now I'm

1130
00:47:19,270 --> 00:47:16,760
my fiction book is the blind assassin by

1131
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:19,280
Margaret Atwood and I love it it's

1132
00:47:26,620 --> 00:47:23,210
fantastic so far and my nonfiction book

1133
00:47:29,190 --> 00:47:26,630
right now is a called moral Kombat by

1134
00:47:33,069 --> 00:47:29,200
saqib ooh hutchinson and she is a

1135
00:47:35,830 --> 00:47:33,079
prominent amazing intellectual black

1136
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:35,840
atheist woman in the US and

1137
00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:38,690
he is like a tour-de-force she's angry

1138
00:47:46,860 --> 00:47:43,250
and super smart and intimidating and I

1139
00:47:54,730 --> 00:47:46,870
adore so so I recommend her book as well

1140
00:47:59,050 --> 00:47:54,740
so website I I just found a tumblr that

1141
00:48:01,420 --> 00:47:59,060
Twitter shames people is it like humble

1142
00:48:05,910 --> 00:48:01,430
brag yeah it's similar to humble brag

1143
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:05,920
but what this person does is they find

1144
00:48:13,150 --> 00:48:10,010
usually it's younger dummies who are

1145
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:13,160
tweeting things like people on welfare

1146
00:48:18,850 --> 00:48:16,370
why don't you just get a job and then

1147
00:48:22,030 --> 00:48:18,860
they go in their history and they find

1148
00:48:24,460 --> 00:48:22,040
another tweet that says I need to get a

1149
00:48:27,430 --> 00:48:24,470
job where's mom with the pizza things

1150
00:48:29,380 --> 00:48:27,440
like that and they put them together and

1151
00:48:32,620 --> 00:48:29,390
post them and it's there's a lot of

1152
00:48:34,330 --> 00:48:32,630
really good shot in Freud yeah Anderson

1153
00:48:35,530 --> 00:48:34,340
Cooper did that with a reporter a couple

1154
00:48:37,180 --> 00:48:35,540
of weeks ago that they said something

1155
00:48:38,890 --> 00:48:37,190
about it they said I'll why don't you

1156
00:48:40,780 --> 00:48:38,900
really report what's going on in Gaza

1157
00:48:43,150 --> 00:48:40,790
and he put it back of them well maybe if

1158
00:48:44,380 --> 00:48:43,160
you weren't talking about fruit flans so

1159
00:48:46,180 --> 00:48:44,390
much and paying attention to the

1160
00:48:48,370 --> 00:48:46,190
conflict you'd know what's going on in

1161
00:48:51,490 --> 00:48:48,380
mind it's a great idea yeah i love i

1162
00:48:53,380 --> 00:48:51,500
love calling out hypocrisy so yeah so

1163
00:48:55,150 --> 00:48:53,390
that's really enjoyable wait let me know

1164
00:49:00,250 --> 00:48:55,160
I think should think of a good serious

1165
00:49:02,260 --> 00:49:00,260
website to recommend oh this isn't

1166
00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:02,270
serious can i plug my article i sent an

1167
00:49:09,010 --> 00:49:04,880
article I'm running I'm now occasionally

1168
00:49:11,410 --> 00:49:09,020
writing for slate at slate com and my

1169
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:11,420
most recent article isi one that Philip

1170
00:49:16,090 --> 00:49:13,970
lights on yes actually yet they've made

1171
00:49:18,010 --> 00:49:16,100
this sudden push for the skeptics they

1172
00:49:20,110 --> 00:49:18,020
snatched a bunch of who are they who's

1173
00:49:23,170 --> 00:49:20,120
behind them slee is a mostly two

1174
00:49:25,690 --> 00:49:23,180
prominent online magazine so they're

1175
00:49:27,970 --> 00:49:25,700
independent I think I know I don't think

1176
00:49:30,220 --> 00:49:27,980
any larger media conglomerate owns them

1177
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:30,230
but I could be wrong about that they're

1178
00:49:33,670 --> 00:49:32,090
great they're science editor they've

1179
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:33,680
just got a new science editor I think

1180
00:49:38,710 --> 00:49:35,810
and she wanted to get more skeptics on

1181
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:38,720
board so Phil's whole blog is on Slate

1182
00:49:42,610 --> 00:49:40,490
now I'm just occasionally contributing

1183
00:49:45,349 --> 00:49:42,620
in articles but my most recent one is

1184
00:49:47,690 --> 00:49:45,359
about the pseudoscience in skymall so

1185
00:49:50,299 --> 00:49:47,700
that's a lot of fun isle of skye man

1186
00:49:52,849 --> 00:49:50,309
that's one of my favorite parts of the

1187
00:49:54,650 --> 00:49:52,859
giz wiz leo laporte's podcast crap i

1188
00:49:57,410 --> 00:49:54,660
bought in skymall it's a part of his

1189
00:49:59,269 --> 00:49:57,420
show and you can get Union suits in

1190
00:50:00,859 --> 00:49:59,279
psychedelic colors you can get all sorts

1191
00:50:03,170 --> 00:50:00,869
of things there is this stuff that only

1192
00:50:04,099 --> 00:50:03,180
exists in skymall i'ma give us example

1193
00:50:06,739 --> 00:50:04,109
of one of the products you wrote about

1194
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:06,749
ok so there's so much pseudoscience that

1195
00:50:14,210 --> 00:50:11,210
I decided to just focus on pet things so

1196
00:50:16,999 --> 00:50:14,220
for instance one thing was a thunder

1197
00:50:19,279 --> 00:50:17,009
shirt oh this this was like I wanted to

1198
00:50:21,259 --> 00:50:19,289
do a story on this because I i have i

1199
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:21,269
have only anecdotal evidence that it

1200
00:50:25,549 --> 00:50:24,210
works does it well ok so this is the

1201
00:50:27,769 --> 00:50:25,559
most controversial thing in the whole

1202
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:27,779
article yeah because yeah there are a

1203
00:50:30,229 --> 00:50:29,130
lot of people who say it works it works

1204
00:50:32,420 --> 00:50:30,239
works and then there's a lot of people

1205
00:50:34,519 --> 00:50:32,430
say it doesn't work you know but both of

1206
00:50:37,069 --> 00:50:34,529
whom have bought it and tried it so you

1207
00:50:40,430 --> 00:50:37,079
know apparently it does seem to work for

1208
00:50:41,870 --> 00:50:40,440
some dogs and some cats even I'll do

1209
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:41,880
what just explain what it is it's it's

1210
00:50:47,779 --> 00:50:45,210
like a tight-fitting jacket that you put

1211
00:50:49,130 --> 00:50:47,789
on to your dog do cats get rid of this I

1212
00:50:50,509 --> 00:50:49,140
better say I wouldn't think cats

1213
00:50:52,999 --> 00:50:50,519
wouldn't have any bit of this I'd be out

1214
00:50:55,339 --> 00:50:53,009
of there well I ok so my anecdotal

1215
00:50:57,979 --> 00:50:55,349
evidence I have two cats who are very

1216
00:51:00,200 --> 00:50:57,989
floppy and codependent and don't

1217
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:00,210
understand how to fight predators and

1218
00:51:07,489 --> 00:51:03,890
things and they can use a TV remote

1219
00:51:09,319 --> 00:51:07,499
actually so one of them Brendan I

1220
00:51:13,039 --> 00:51:09,329
thought it'd be funny to stick him in a

1221
00:51:15,170 --> 00:51:13,049
shark costume and so I put it was made

1222
00:51:18,380 --> 00:51:15,180
for dogs but whatever was in the

1223
00:51:19,910 --> 00:51:18,390
discount bin um so I I put it on him as

1224
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:19,920
like a little hoodie with a little jaws

1225
00:51:24,589 --> 00:51:22,650
over his head and he like immediately

1226
00:51:27,229 --> 00:51:24,599
like fell over and just laid there

1227
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:27,239
purring and it didn't seem like

1228
00:51:32,749 --> 00:51:29,970
sometimes cats purr when they're hurt or

1229
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:32,759
something but he was really happy like

1230
00:51:36,349 --> 00:51:35,249
he was rolling around and like he loved

1231
00:51:37,940 --> 00:51:36,359
it I think he can't tell the difference

1232
00:51:41,210 --> 00:51:37,950
between good attention and bad attention

1233
00:51:43,099 --> 00:51:41,220
um but he doesn't like being hugged so

1234
00:51:44,539 --> 00:51:43,109
at the time I was like oh maybe he likes

1235
00:51:45,859 --> 00:51:44,549
it because it feels like a hug and then

1236
00:51:47,479 --> 00:51:45,869
I see the thundershirt and that's

1237
00:51:49,549 --> 00:51:47,489
exactly what it claims to 24 both dogs

1238
00:51:51,019 --> 00:51:49,559
and cats so I looked into it and there's

1239
00:51:53,059 --> 00:51:51,029
really no scientific evidence to suggest

1240
00:51:54,890 --> 00:51:53,069
it works there have been a few studies

1241
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:54,900
that have looked at

1242
00:51:57,980 --> 00:51:56,130
Miller things like there's this hug

1243
00:52:01,849 --> 00:51:57,990
machine I don't know if you're familiar

1244
00:52:04,519 --> 00:52:01,859
with temple grandin but she is a an

1245
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:04,529
autistic woman from the US who is

1246
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:07,170
brilliant and she works for

1247
00:52:13,730 --> 00:52:10,650
slaughterhouses making the making them

1248
00:52:15,410 --> 00:52:13,740
better for the cattle no no we are you

1249
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:15,420
just making this up are you taking the

1250
00:52:19,010 --> 00:52:17,130
piss at this stage I told this

1251
00:52:21,319 --> 00:52:19,020
Australian guy but there was his hug

1252
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:21,329
machine no no so there's this hug

1253
00:52:25,970 --> 00:52:23,970
machine for cattle and it's this giant

1254
00:52:27,620 --> 00:52:25,980
machine and it hugs them intimal grin

1255
00:52:29,630 --> 00:52:27,630
and got into the hug machine and found

1256
00:52:31,910 --> 00:52:29,640
that she liked it a lot and she thought

1257
00:52:34,010 --> 00:52:31,920
that it could help autistic kids by

1258
00:52:36,620 --> 00:52:34,020
providing like this constant pressure on

1259
00:52:39,799 --> 00:52:36,630
your body and so now there are several

1260
00:52:42,109 --> 00:52:39,809
like centers for autistic children that

1261
00:52:44,029 --> 00:52:42,119
use these things and claimed to have

1262
00:52:46,460 --> 00:52:44,039
good benefits but the few scientific

1263
00:52:49,220 --> 00:52:46,470
studies have only shown really marginal

1264
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:49,230
differences in the amount of stress that

1265
00:52:55,010 --> 00:52:52,770
these supposedly cure and so they're not

1266
00:52:56,900 --> 00:52:55,020
really conclusive and we're talking in

1267
00:53:00,019 --> 00:52:56,910
this case about this large machine that

1268
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:00,029
applies like constant even pressure you

1269
00:53:05,150 --> 00:53:02,130
know all the time as opposed to a little

1270
00:53:07,670 --> 00:53:05,160
jacket but the little jacket is selling

1271
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:07,680
itself based on those studies on the hug

1272
00:53:11,210 --> 00:53:09,690
machine like they quote Temple Grandin

1273
00:53:13,339 --> 00:53:11,220
on their website and stuff so there's

1274
00:53:14,779 --> 00:53:13,349
really no evidence to suggest it works

1275
00:53:16,579 --> 00:53:14,789
however you know there are a lot of

1276
00:53:17,599 --> 00:53:16,589
there's anecdotal evidence this just

1277
00:53:19,519 --> 00:53:17,609
works because there are a lot of people

1278
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:19,529
saying it works for my dog you know or

1279
00:53:23,510 --> 00:53:22,170
my cat so you know it's kind of up in

1280
00:53:25,069 --> 00:53:23,520
the air who knows if it works you know

1281
00:53:27,079 --> 00:53:25,079
if you have a dog that's scared of the

1282
00:53:29,180 --> 00:53:27,089
thunder you know and you have 50 bucks

1283
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:29,190
burning a hole in your pocket then i say

1284
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:32,970
go ahead who cares um but but yeah but

1285
00:53:35,359 --> 00:53:34,170
personally I'm gonna stick with the

1286
00:53:36,980 --> 00:53:35,369
shark costume because it cost me five

1287
00:53:39,500 --> 00:53:36,990
dollars in the discount bin and you know

1288
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:39,510
does the same thing look Rebecca Watson

1289
00:53:42,500 --> 00:53:40,890
I've taken a lot of your time here at

1290
00:53:44,660 --> 00:53:42,510
the conference today and look I look I'm

1291
00:53:47,510 --> 00:53:44,670
just so happy that you make a living on

1292
00:53:49,010 --> 00:53:47,520
your intelligence it's great oh I think

1293
00:53:51,769 --> 00:53:49,020
I living on something I don't know if

1294
00:53:53,930 --> 00:53:51,779
it's my intelligence I think my

1295
00:53:55,309 --> 00:53:53,940
polarization right I think that's what

1296
00:53:57,769 --> 00:53:55,319
everybody keeps telling yeah that's what

1297
00:54:16,710 --> 00:53:57,779
I'm an attention [\h__\h] for money Polizzi

1298
00:54:22,330 --> 00:54:19,660
ning Center shot indicia skeptic zone

1299
00:54:26,830 --> 00:54:22,340
watch alyssa o'meara one gesture

1300
00:54:30,580 --> 00:54:26,840
Sceptile tachometers en skype toy chica

1301
00:54:33,370 --> 00:54:30,590
koziol a podcast GMO a momentito with

1302
00:54:36,550 --> 00:54:33,380
hardened sinner hearty pocket and Helios

1303
00:54:40,180 --> 00:54:36,560
in the train solution in mulund photo

1304
00:54:42,850 --> 00:54:40,190
session chanchad solana cncl link li dao

1305
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:42,860
itunes the chihuahua jan sad sigh

1306
00:54:50,270 --> 00:54:45,410
escaped oi codger chiffon well one of

1307
00:54:53,630 --> 00:54:50,280
the luncheon Sceptile Cardassian

1308
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:53,640
the sceptile science podcast by brian

1309
00:54:58,490 --> 00:54:56,010
dunning is now available for Chinese

1310
00:55:01,460 --> 00:54:58,500
audience please tell your Chinese

1311
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:01,470
friends to visit skip toy duck hunters

1312
00:55:08,510 --> 00:55:04,290
en a fine skip toid on the Chinese

1313
00:55:26,390 --> 00:55:08,520
itunes door i'm lisa from skeptic on the

1314
00:55:31,290 --> 00:55:28,860
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1315
00:55:33,300 --> 00:55:31,300
zone who made it back just in time to

1316
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:33,310
finish off the show that clam chowder

1317
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:35,650
was just heavenly I love it I love the

1318
00:55:40,020 --> 00:55:38,050
old clam chowder in San Francisco it's

1319
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:40,030
famous for it I love the sourdough bowl

1320
00:55:45,150 --> 00:55:42,370
as well meet the lot on next week's show

1321
00:55:47,940 --> 00:55:45,160
more fantastic interviews from Maynard

1322
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:47,950
from Melbourne who can we line up we

1323
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:50,170
might even have james randi himself

1324
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:52,210
thank you again to those people who

1325
00:55:56,780 --> 00:55:54,010
contribute to make the skeptic zone

1326
00:55:59,730 --> 00:55:56,790
possible your little financial

1327
00:56:02,490 --> 00:55:59,740
contributions go a very long way I can

1328
00:56:07,710 --> 00:56:02,500
promise you that so we made it we made

1329
00:56:10,230 --> 00:56:07,720
it to the end of 2012 oh well stuff

1330
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ancient prophecy I think I would rather

1331
00:56:17,690 --> 00:56:13,290
have an exciting and interesting future

1332
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:17,700
so until 2013 this is Richard Saunders

1333
00:56:26,250 --> 00:56:20,290
signing off from the Bay Area San

1334
00:56:30,930 --> 00:56:26,260
Francisco you've been listening to the

1335
00:56:34,770 --> 00:56:30,940
skeptic zone visit our website at www